{"id":29490,"date":"2021-07-14T15:14:43","date_gmt":"2021-07-14T15:14:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/?post_type=articles&p=29490"},"modified":"2021-07-19T15:21:34","modified_gmt":"2021-07-19T15:21:34","slug":"five-questions-for-pat-cleveland","status":"publish","type":"articles","link":"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/articles\/five-questions-for-pat-cleveland\/","title":{"rendered":"FIVE QUESTIONS FOR \u2026 Pat Cleveland"},"content":{"rendered":"
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\"FIVE
Pat Cleveland attends Democratic National Convention Party on July 11, 1976 at Madison Square Garden in New York City.
Photo Credit: Ron Galella \/ Getty Images<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

\u201cPat Cleveland was a muse for Halston, Stephen Burrows, Giorgio Sant\u2019Angelo, and Antonio Lopez,\u201d Diane von Furstenberg told the New York Times in 2016 when Cleveland\u2019s memoir, Walking with the Muses<\/em>, was being published.\u00a0 \u201cShe was, and is still, magical \u2026 Pat is a more gorgeous version of Josephine Baker.\u201d<\/p>\n

When I was thinking about writing a book about the late African American fashion designer Patrick Kelly, I gave Pat a call after she agreed to talk to me about him.\u00a0 He was her dear friend and she served as his muse as well. It was on Pat\u2019s advice that Kelly, who was from Mississippi, left New York City for Paris where he made such a splash in the 1980s, so much so that he was the first American to be admitted to the F\u00e9d\u00e9ration fran\u00e7aise de la couture, du pr\u00eat-\u00e0-porter des couturiers et des cr\u00e9ateurs de mode, which is the governing body of the French ready-t0-wear industry.\u00a0 Pat and I talked a lot, in fact, about their shared love of Josephine Baker.<\/p>\n

Cleveland is more than magical now; she is inspirational.\u00a0 Known for her giddy singular grace all her life, she has found a deeper kind of grace in the dignity she has shown since being diagnosed with cancer a couple of years ago.\u00a0\u00a0 It puts into context now in an even more moving way the wisdom she imparted during our conversation about Patrick Kelly.<\/p>\n

But first, we talked about her mother from whom she inherited her indomitable spirit.<\/p>\n

You grew up on the \u201cgolden edge\u201d of Harlem, as you\u2019ve called East Harlem, with a remarkable mother who was also a remarkable artist.\u00a0 She did a portrait of Eartha Kitt that I love.\u00a0\u00a0 I also love her name: Lady Bird Cleveland.\u00a0 She was also known as Lady Bird Strickland.\u00a0 She died in 2015 from Alzheimer\u2019s after your taking care of her for the last 12 years of her life. Would you talk about her a bit, Pat?<\/em><\/p>\n

I\u2019m so mad they made a film called Lady Bird<\/em> because I\u2019d like to make a film about my mother and now I can\u2019t use that title. She was from Georgia.\u00a0 I knew a lot about what it meant to be from down south from being raised by her.\u00a0 I knew a lot of the southern customs.\u00a0 I knew about being polite.\u00a0 I knew yes mam <\/em>and all that stuff.\u00a0 I knew what it was like to be a southern belle.\u00a0 My mother was quite something.\u00a0 She and Eartha Kitt were friends.\u00a0 But it goes even deeper than that. Henriette Metcalf – Madam Metcalf, as I called her – was my godmother.\u00a0\u00a0 Her husband had been Willard Metcalf, the painter.\u00a0 After she divorced him, she met Thelma Wood who was the lover of\u00a0 Djuna Barnes, and Wood left Barnes for my godmother.\u00a0\u00a0 Barnes modeled the character of Jenny in Nightwood<\/em> on my godmother, Madam Metcalf.\u00a0\u00a0 When I think back about it I think \u201cWow, she really liked my mom a lot. Hmmm.\u201d\u00a0 I was raised around all these people in the art world, the bohemian world.<\/p>\n

I grew up in a mixed neighborhood.\u00a0 Jewish Americans with the little curls and blacks and Irish and Puerto Ricans who were the new Americans like in West Side Story<\/em>.\u00a0\u00a0 Those were my four corners growing up.\u00a0 Each corner had a different cultural sound. On one corner you had the Irish singing and partying and drinking.\u00a0 On another, you\u2019d hear the Jews just being quiet.\u00a0 You\u2019d hear the Puerto Ricans playing bongos at night.\u00a0 And the blacks would be singing doo-wop. So the streets were very lively at night.\u00a0 And everybody was getting along.<\/p>\n

My father was Swedish.\u00a0 A jazz saxophonist.\u00a0 He came from Stockholm.\u00a0\u00a0 I did a genealogy search for him.\u00a0 I only had one photo of him since he left my mother and returned to Sweden when she was pregnant with me.\u00a0 He had to go into the army or something.\u00a0 She told me he didn\u2019t know about me and she didn\u2019t tell him.\u00a0 He came to visit two years later and there I was. It was a surprise to him, according to Lady Bird.\u00a0\u00a0 But I discovered I had seven siblings in Sweden through a second cousin I also discovered so one summer recently I rented a big house over there and met them all.\u00a0 It was like a movie.\u00a0 I had been an only child all my life and now I am one of seven – no, eight.\u00a0 They took me to the club where my dad had played jazz.\u00a0 It was like the Apollo Theater of Sweden.\u00a0 He played with Coleman Hawkins.\u00a0 He played with everybody.\u00a0\u00a0 I remember sitting on his knee during that visit when I was two but that\u2019s about it.\u00a0 When I was a child I used to wear clogs and eat a lot of yogurts.\u00a0 People used to laugh at me and I didn\u2019t know why I did those things.\u00a0 And even though I am black, I\u2019m half Swedish.\u00a0 I always thought, well, if they put me down for being Black then I\u2019ll be a Viking!<\/p>\n

But back to my mom.\u00a0 You asked me about her.\u00a0 She was, yes, a remarkable artist but she worked to support us in the mental hospital Bellevue at night.\u00a0 She slept in the morning and painted in the afternoon. \u00a0This is the thing: to watch somebody with her strength was instrumental to me.\u00a0\u00a0 She was a Leo.\u00a0 I\u2019m a Cancer.\u00a0 She was so bright and able to have confidence. Whatever she did – making clothes, painting – she always brought joy into it.<\/p>\n

She was 23 when she had me.\u00a0 But before I was there, she had quite an amazing life.\u00a0 She hung out with Joe Louis and Carl Van Vechten and everybody.\u00a0\u00a0 In fact, Van Vechten took my first photograph on a no-seam – you know, seamless photography paper.\u00a0 Who knew I\u2019d spend so much of my life on that seamless paper later.\u00a0 Van Vechten loved my mother.\u00a0 He knew her through Madam Metcalf and another of my godmothers, the opera singer Marian Anderson.\u00a0\u00a0 My mother knew everybody.\u00a0 I grew up around Noble Sissle and Eubie Blake. \u00a0\u00a0All the Black stars.\u00a0 Billie Holiday was my mom\u2019s good friend.\u00a0 I remember though my mom coming home one night and telling me that she wasn\u2019t going to hang out with her anymore because \u201cshe\u2019s messed up. She does a lot of heroin.\u201d\u00a0 I was still a little kid and I remember thinking: What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n

I remember Eartha Kitt inviting my mother and me to the Jewel Box Review. That\u2019s the show back in the day that used to have all the drag queens.\u00a0 It was coming through Harlem and at the Apollo Theater.\u00a0 We were sitting in the front row.\u00a0 Eartha came out as a guest star and sang \u201cSanta Baby\u201d and crawled around on the stage floor – and then she\u2019d look right at my mom and me on the front row and sing at us.\u00a0 I have never forgotten it.\u00a0 All the people in the show came out with dresses on and I\u00a0 looked at their legs from that front row seat and I saw hair on their legs and I said, \u201cMa, those women have really hairy legs.\u201d\u00a0 She didn\u2019t tell me back then that they were men. But they would sing at us too because they knew were Eartha\u2019s friends.<\/p>\n

Oh! And I used to be the little mascot for Katherine Dunham and her dancers.\u00a0 My aunt was one in her troupe.\u00a0 I\u2019d be there in her dance studio and hanging on the barre like a little monkey when they were taking the class.\u00a0 That\u2019s what they\u2019d call me:\u00a0 \u201cOur little monkey.\u201d\u00a0 I\u2019d hang there and watch them dance and some of them playing drums.\u00a0 I remember once seeing Marlon Brando in her class.\u00a0\u00a0 A whole bunch of movie stars back then would take a class with Dunham.\u00a0\u00a0 It was just where I hung out as a kid because my mom had to go to work.\u00a0 So she\u2019d leave me with my auntie who\u2019d take me to class with her.<\/p>\n

\"FIVE
Photo Credit: Anthony Barboza \/ Getty Images<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

When I\u2019d try to sleep at night, I\u2019d hear those drums playing.\u00a0 Our living room was covered floor to ceiling with mirrors because the dancers would come over sometimes to visit my auntie who was babysitting me and they\u2019d rehearse and the drums would start playing.\u00a0 I\u2019d wake up and go in and dance with them.<\/p>\n

My mom moved to New York from Georgia when she was 12 because her parents had died.\u00a0 She moved in with another aunt and her five kids and took care of them.\u00a0 When she was 15, she started going out to the clubs in Harlem.\u00a0 She met Paul Robeson.\u00a0 He was a bad guy.\u00a0 I can\u2019t tell you why though.\u00a0 I can\u2019t tell you that.\u00a0 But he was really bad.\u00a0 My mom was on the way to someplace and he wanted her to come up and have lunch in his room but he did something to her that she didn\u2019t like.\u00a0 I think he is a hero in some way, but he\u2019s not.\u00a0 Not really.<\/p>\n

My mom was very bright and very smart.\u00a0 She won a scholarship to Pratt when she was 15.\u00a0 She just didn\u2019t have money but she was a hard worker. I learned from her that you have to work really hard toward something.\u00a0 I couldn\u2019t let her down after she had struggled so hard.\u00a0 She helped me sew my clothes.\u00a0 When I was a teenager, Madam Metcalf said that they should send me to the High School of Art and Design.\u00a0\u00a0 It was too expensive for us to buy clothes for me to wear down to school on 59th Street.\u00a0 So she taught me how to make my own clothes.\u00a0 At night, I\u2019d do my homework but I\u2019d also make a new dress to wear the next day. I still do that.\u00a0 I make myself something to go out in.\u00a0 I still make myself about three outfits a week.\u00a0 And that\u2019s thanks to Lady Bird.\u00a0 Busy hands, happy heart.<\/p>\n

That’s a good segue into Patrick Kelly.\u00a0 He is almost forgotten now but he was such a star in the 1980s as a designer.\u00a0\u00a0 A young Black man from Mississippi took Paris by storm but died of AIDS early on New Year\u2019s Day 1990.\u00a0 You were instrumental in his career.\u00a0 Would you talk a bit about Patrick? <\/em><\/p>\n

I had this friend who was a hairdresser.\u00a0 You know,\u00a0 how you have buddies who are just beginning to make it when you\u2019re just beginning to make it yourself?\u00a0 They come over to your kitchen and you play around doing hair and makeup?\u00a0 My hairdresser buddy called me one night and told me he was bringing a friend over.\u00a0 \u201cHe really loves you,\u201d he said, \u201cHe makes clothes in his closet right now because his apartment is so small.\u00a0 He really wants to meet you.\u00a0 Can he come over?\u00a0 He is going to bring something over for you.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to go do the Hair Show over at Columbus Circle at The Coliseum.\u201d\u00a0 Remember The Coliseum?\u00a0 I was living on Central Park South at the time across from where the horses are parked there on 59th Street.\u00a0 Near the Plaza.\u00a0 It was a tiny little apartment at the back of the building.\u00a0 I was really lonely.\u00a0 I think I was 27 or 28 at the time.\u00a0 I was lonely<\/em>.\u00a0 And I was angry<\/em>.<\/p>\n

They came over \u2013 Patrick was the friend my friend brought over who wanted to meet me \u2013 and they said, \u201cOh, perk up!\u00a0 We\u2019re going to go out and do this Hair Show, all three of us.\u00a0 You want to come with us and do a little singing number? Patrick here has a little Josephine costume for you if you want to put it on.\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 Because I had been going around singing back then at the Mudd Club and singing at Bond\u2019s.\u00a0 I had been going around and singing Josephine Baker songs.<\/p>\n

Patrick was so cute when my friend brought him over that day.\u00a0 He was wearing jeans.\u00a0 He had fluffy hair.\u00a0 He was sweet.\u00a0 And huggable.\u00a0 Patrick then pulled out of his bag these plastic bananas and cupcakes covered with shiny pink fabric to cover my breasts.\u00a0 He put all that on me and stuck a feather in the back of my chignon.\u00a0 We threw a cape over me and we went walking over from my apartment, which was on Sixth Avenue and 59th Street, to The Coliseum on Columbus Circle where they were having that Hair Show.\u00a0 There was a pianist there.\u00a0 He asked, \u201cWhat number do you want to sing?\u201d\u00a0\u00a0 So I sang him a bit the Josephine Baker song,\u00a0La Petite Tonkinoise.\u00a0 <\/em>\u00a0He said, \u201cOh, I know that song.\u201d\u00a0 They had these big gold lam\u00e9 curtains hanging down. You know how hairdressers are.\u00a0 Everything is lam\u00e9.\u00a0 Of course, they did my hair like Josephine once I got there.\u00a0 They put tons of grease on me.\u00a0 I felt all nice and shiny.\u00a0 I had on my real good show-biz makeup \u2013 which is if-it-doesn\u2019t-shine-you-don\u2019t-see-it makeup.\u00a0 I had on my highest heels from Charles Jourdan from Paris.\u00a0 His shoes were all the rage back then.<\/p>\n

I was behind the curtain.\u00a0 So I flipped open the curtain like that stripper – I can\u2019t remember her name, they made a movie about her – but I flipped open that curtain like that stripper I can\u2019t remember.\u00a0 The spotlight hit me.\u00a0 I had on my fishnet flesh-colored stockings with little pearls hanging off them.\u00a0 I did a whole Josephine number with my bananas bouncing and stuff.\u00a0 I think there\u2019s a video of it somewhere.\u00a0 This was before Columbus Circle was gorgeous.\u00a0 It was a dump.\u00a0 They had those car shows there at the Coliseum.\u00a0 It was really tacky.<\/p>\n

But we had such a great time there \u2013 me and Patrick.\u00a0 So we went back to my apartment and he said, \u201cYou know, I just can\u2019t seem to make it here.\u00a0 I want to make some clothes and go to Paris one day and I\u2019m going to be a star.\u201d\u00a0 I said, \u201cYeah, over there it\u2019s all so easy.\u201d\u00a0 And he said, \u201cYeah, but I can\u2019t afford to go there.\u201d<\/p>\n

I said, \u201cWell, I\u2019ll give you the money to go.\u201d\u00a0 So I wrote him out a check for a plane ticket.\u00a0 I said, \u201cYou better get on that plane tomorrow. And go!\u00a0 Because you\u2019re wasting your time here in New York.\u201d\u00a0 And he did.\u00a0 He got on the plane the next day as soon as he got that ticket and he went to Paris. \u00a0I told him, \u201cGet in touch with my friend Antonio Lopez.\u00a0 He\u2019s over there.\u201d<\/p>\n

So he got in touch with Antonio and Antonio kind of helped him a little bit.\u00a0 I guess he met some other nice people because then he started going out to\u00a0 Club Sept.\u00a0\u00a0 That was where you met everybody who\u2019s \u201cin the night.\u201d\u00a0 All the night stars.\u00a0 All the couture cutters.\u00a0 It\u2019s where you went to be seen and have fun.\u00a0 He started hanging out there and before you knew it he had this little atelier only a few doors down from the Caf\u00e9\u00a0Flore.\u00a0 It was on the first floor and you could just walk in there.\u00a0 You had to walk down into it.<\/p>\n

So when I went back to Paris he had already gotten everything together.\u00a0 And every black girl who went to Paris ended up magnetized toward his studio because the fact is that was home away from home.\u00a0 He would fry chicken and cook grits and collard greens and cornbread.\u00a0 He would invite us all over to eat.\u00a0 It was so charming because he was always sort of modest.\u00a0 He was nourishing everybody.<\/p>\n

What he would do is that he would pray all the time.\u00a0\u00a0 When you came into his studio, he would always talk about God.\u00a0 And pray.\u00a0 He was like a little preacher.\u00a0 He would make a circle of us and say, \u201cOh, while you\u2019re here, let\u2019s pray.\u201d\u00a0 Everybody would hold hands and bow their heads.\u00a0 And he\u2019d say, \u201cOh, thank you, God, for all these blessings you\u2019ve bestowed upon us.\u00a0 We\u2019re all so lucky to be here.\u00a0 Please bless us all.\u00a0 And give us guidance.\u00a0 Amen.\u201d\u00a0 That would always be his prayer.\u00a0 And we\u2019d all feel invigorated.\u00a0 And satisfied.\u00a0\u00a0 And happy.\u00a0\u00a0 Because he was like a healer in a way.<\/p>\n

He ended up being in Paris all the time.\u00a0 He never came back really.\u00a0\u00a0 He never came back.\u00a0 He made the great escape.\u00a0 Just like Josephine Baker.\u00a0 Oh my God, he was so in love with Josephine Baker.\u00a0 That was sort of our lynchpin and what connected us.\u00a0 We had this great love for Josephine.\u00a0 My great aunt was Josephine\u2019s Sunday School teacher and taught her piano and taught her how to sing.\u00a0 When it was time for Josephine to get out of St. Louis,\u00a0 it was my great aunt \u2013 who was 6\u20193\u201d \u2013 who told her \u201cgo and be with the show.\u201d<\/p>\n

It sort of broke my heart when you called Patrick a healer because at the end of his life he couldn’t<\/em>\u00a0heal himself from AIDS.\u00a0 Did it break yours?<\/em><\/p>\n

But those kinds of things are so unpredictable.\u00a0 Why are these wonderful people chosen?\u00a0 That\u2019s how I look at it.\u00a0 Why are stars chosen?\u00a0 I think Patrick was a Chosen One.\u00a0 He and Antonio- who also died of AIDS.\u00a0\u00a0 They were so significant.\u00a0 They were so important.\u00a0 They were so important because they had to suffer a lot to be who they were during those times.\u00a0 Back then you couldn\u2019t really be yourself.\u00a0 But they were bold.\u00a0 And they were truthful.\u00a0 And they were 100% very spiritual.\u00a0\u00a0 They were also giving a lot to people.\u00a0 They cared about people.\u00a0 Patrick cared a lot about people.\u00a0 He was like a father to everybody \u2013 or a brother. \u00a0So you would never think something like that would happen to someone like that.<\/p>\n

\"FIVE
Photo Credit: Dia Dipasupil \/ Getty Images<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

But those things are unpredictable and scary.\u00a0 Because people saw that as something really bad.\u00a0\u00a0 Half the boys I knew back then are gone.\u00a0 And those boys were so beautiful.<\/p>\n

Do you still carry around grief for that time and for those boys?<\/em><\/p>\n

You can\u2019t think of it like that.\u00a0 All that torturous sadness.\u00a0 Instead, you have to think of all the gloriousness and what they gave.\u00a0 All their beauty and happiness.\u00a0 Just being gay toward the world \u2013 as the word is supposed to mean. You wake up every morning and you put your music on and you dance and you love the people who are around you.\u00a0 You make a party so everybody can feel good.\u00a0 These were party people.<\/p>\n

As for Patrick, All you had to do was look at him to know what his childhood was about and what he went through.\u00a0 He had to get out of Mississippi. It wasn\u2019t happening in New York for him. They were never going to give him a chance \u2013 a black boy from Mississippi \u2013 as good as he was and as much as God loved him. God did give him a chance in Paris though.\u00a0 I knew it and he knew it.\u00a0 Because he was praying all the time about it.\u00a0 He was praying, honey.\u00a0\u00a0 He was praying.<\/p>\n

Remember that movie set in Louisiana, Beasts of the Southern Wild<\/em>?\u00a0 That was like a fairytale.\u00a0 Patrick had to face the beast of hatred in people\u2019s hearts because of racism in his own fairytale.\u00a0 And then he had to face the beast again at the end of his life because of the fear people had around AIDS.\u00a0 His life was a fairytale.\u00a0 But it had its beasts.<\/p>\n

I think Patrick\u2019s whole life was about trying to find a home.\u00a0 Look what happened.\u00a0 He had the similar thing as Josephine Baker.\u00a0 He was locked out of his home when he was a boy when he was thought to be bad and had to sleep on the porch.\u00a0 Josephine was locked out of The Stork Club.\u00a0 She was locked out of opportunities because she was a woman of color.\u00a0 Patrick had the same thing on Seventh Avenue.\u00a0 He was locked out.<\/p>\n

Racism is about hatred.\u00a0 Hatred of something that is different \u2013 the other.\u00a0 But my attitude is that there are no races.\u00a0 Just the human race.\u00a0 I think I was pretty lucky basically because I have a lot of willpower.\u00a0 I am like that lotus where the leaves fall off and I just keep growing and growing.\u00a0 I don\u2019t let things stick to me.<\/p>\n

Do you ever think about that time in your life full of parties and drugs in the 1970s and 1980s and ever regret any of it, Pat \u2013 the hedonism of it all, all the darkness within all that light\u2013\u00a0 especially because of the specter of AIDS?\u00a0 <\/em><\/p>\n

No.\u00a0 I never think of all those things in that way.\u00a0 All of that was just natural that people were having fun.\u00a0 It was like the Roaring Twenties.\u00a0 It was forbidden drugs and forbidden behavior.\u00a0 It\u2019s always naughtiness.\u00a0 The naughtiness of being naughty.\u00a0 Everybody was naughty.\u00a0 But that was just another side of yourself.\u00a0 All sexuality is natural.\u00a0 Isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think it\u2019s about darkness.\u00a0 Life is life.\u00a0 What?\u00a0 You\u2019re not going to live it up? You have to live it up.\u00a0 Sometimes there are dangerous things and sometimes butterflies get caught in spiderwebs.\u00a0 But it\u2019s not about light and darkness.\u00a0 It\u2019s all life.\u00a0 All of it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":29575,"featured_media":30053,"template":"","format":"standard","categories":[23,38,16],"yoast_head":"\nFIVE QUESTIONS FOR \u2026 Pat Cleveland - Grazia USA<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/articles\/five-questions-for-pat-cleveland\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"FIVE QUESTIONS FOR \u2026 Pat Cleveland\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"\u201cPat Cleveland was a muse for Halston, Stephen Burrows, Giorgio Sant\u2019Angelo, and Antonio Lopez,\u201d Diane von Furstenberg told the New York Times in 2016 when Cleveland\u2019s memoir, Walking with the Muses, was being published.\u00a0 \u201cShe was, and is still, magical \u2026 Pat is a more gorgeous version of Josephine Baker.\u201d When I was thinking about...\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/articles\/five-questions-for-pat-cleveland\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Grazia USA\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2021-07-19T15:21:34+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/15\/2021\/07\/PC-Feature.jpg?fit=1280%2C720\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"1280\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"720\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"19 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/articles\/five-questions-for-pat-cleveland\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/graziamagazine.com\/us\/articles\/five-questions-for-pat-cleveland\/\",\"name\":\"FIVE QUESTIONS FOR \u2026 Pat Cleveland - 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